In today's episode, we're joined by Priscilla and Micah, who share their deeply personal journey from miscarriage to a blissful home birth experience. They open up about the challenges of navigating their birthing location and provider and how they had their choice to plan a homebirth affirmed in several ways throughout pregnancy, including through their own research, doula, and birth class. They detail the spiritual, emotional and physical rollercoaster of pregnancy after loss as well as the importance of trusting one's body and instincts. Their story is a testament to resilience and the support of a loving community of women. Quick content warning: there is not only mention of 1st trimester pregnancy loss, but also a bit of a scary mention of blood loss after birth when they decide to transfer to the hospital after birth to be sure that the whole placenta was delivered due to its unusual shape (spoiler alert: it ends up being a false alarm, as you might have seen in this episode’s title).
Resources:
Birth Story (documentary)
Supernatural Midwifery (Chloe Campbell, homebirth midwife)
Chana Diamond (Doula)
Sponsor links:
Free “Pack for Your Best Birth” Packing List (with free mini-course option)
East River Doula Collective (find a doula, attend our free “Meet the Doulas” event)
Birth Matters NYC Childbirth Education Classes (Astoria, Queens and virtual)
*Disclosure: Links on this page to products are affiliate links; I will receive a small commission on any products you purchase at no additional cost to you.
Episode Topics:
1st pregnancy, a surprise, resulted in loss around 1 month in, which was transformative
Decided they wanted to try again, took 6 months to get period again
Started working with an acupuncturist and made nutritional changes to try to conceive
Working with OB wasn’t helpful, so decided to switch
During ht fertility journey - Spiritual rituals - Jewish Moroccan mystic & honoring her deceased father
At a wedding April 2023, she realized her breasts felt weird and next day she learned she was pregnant
Felt really sick early on, didn’t tell family early on
2nd trimester felt so much better and loved being pregnant
Journey toward choosing home birth
Water broke 3 weeks before due date while having Thanksgiving leftovers at their dining room table
Micah goes to get coconut water and miso soup, they call their doula and midwife (Chloe was supposed to be back from a trip abroad, but got delayed)
Reflecting back on the Story of the Journey of Inanna and losing things (such as her midwife)
Went to farmer’s market, did curb walking, made breakfast
In afternoon, acupuncturist Stephanie Propper comes over
Watch romcom, went to sleep, contractions still haven’t started
Mom and sister fly from California and thought they wouldn’t make it but they had plenty of time
36 hours has gone by and still no contractions
She was GBS positive
Chloe got home Monday and came over
Getting discouraged and wondering if they might have to go to the hospital
Chloe recommended castor oil smoothie, vomited
Took nap, when she woke up contractions had started, nearly 48 hrs later
Contractions were really intense from the start
Monday evening – family (all females) and doula Chana come over and it’s wonderful
Coping tools that were effective - massage, words of encouragement, square breathing, humming, low moaning, singing, snuggling with Micah, circling hips
Starts feeling pushy
Inflated the tub, pushing ends up taking around 4 hrs, contractions slow down
Use a birthing stool
Tried tug-o-war technique
Chana brought compact mirror they used for Priscilla to see Sandy’s head
Goes to toilet and then it starts feeling more instinctive
Everyone comes into bathroom to catch baby
They move to bed and feel blissed out
Placenta doesn’t come out; after an hour they decide to go in manually to try to remove it, really painful
Baby is still on her chest
Chloe decided they needed to go to the hospital because it seemed not all of the placenta was out
EMS comes and takes her to the hospital. False alarm, they checked everything out and no placenta left behind
Closing reflections
Interview Transcript
Lisa (0s): You are listening to the Birth Matters podcast, episode one thirty one.
Priscilla (4s): Micah was feeling really confident and positive after your birth class just because there were so many evidence-based examples of all of these small things in a hospital that are not to your benefit. It felt like half of the class or fewer were like, and y'all don't have to really worry about this 'cause you're doing it at home. And that just felt so nice. We had already made the decision but that was when we really were feeling super duper pleased with it. We were already pleased but I would always say we're gonna try to give birth at home. And I was very okay with transferring to the hospital and I was like, even if I just get the prenatal midwife care and then end up giving birth in the hospital, like that's so fine with me.
And that was my hedge to allow myself to go there without a hundred percent being committed to it.
Lisa (55s): Hey there and welcome to the Birth Matters Show. I'm your host Lisa Graves Taylor, founder of Birth Matters NYC, and director of East River Doula Collective. I'm a childbirth educator, birth doula and lactation counselor and I've been passionately supporting growing families since 2009. This show is here to lessen your overwhelm on the journey into parenthood by equipping and encouraging you with current best evidence, info, and soulful interviews with parents and birth pros.
Please keep in mind the information on this show is not intended as medical advice or to diagnose or treat any medical conditions. Did you know you can sign up to receive email updates whenever a new episode goes live? Visit Birth Matters show.com to join our podcast community. In today's episode, we're joined by Priscilla and Micah who share their deeply personal journey from miscarriage to a blissful home birth experience. They open up about the challenges of navigating their birthing location and provider and how they had their choice to plan a home birth.
Affirmed in several ways throughout pregnancy, including through their own research doula and birth class. They detailed the spiritual, emotional and physical rollercoaster of pregnancy after loss as well as the importance of trusting one's body and instincts. Their story is a testament to resilience and the support of a loving community of women. Quick content warning there is not only mention of first trimester pregnancy loss but also a bit of a scary mention of blood loss after birth when they decide to transfer to the hospital after birth to be sure that the whole placenta was delivered due to its unusual shape.
Spoiler alert, it ends up being a false alarm as you might have seen in this episode's title. I also wanted to mention that you'll notice the doula who's praised in this episode is also praised in the last episode. Fun to have a bit of a through line there. Before we jump in, I wanted to spread the word that we have officially posted Birth Matters group class series dates all the way through to the end of December. So be sure to grab your spot whether you prefer the in-person or virtual format.
If a date you see isn't yet open for registration, you can email us to be put on the wait list and we'll be sure to notify you the moment we open your preferred series up for registration. Visit Birth Matters nyc.com for all the class options, whether you want group classes, which can be in-person or virtual If you want private classes or we also have an on your own schedule online course option. Okay, now let's jump in and hear from Priscilla and Micah.
Welcome to the Birth Matters podcast. Today I have with me Priscilla and Micah, former students from birth class. Hi, it's so good to see you.
Priscilla (3m 54s): Hi Lisa. We're so happy to see you again. Hey Lisa.
Lisa (3m 57s): Thank you for being willing to share and so early on. So would you please just take a moment to introduce yourself?
Priscilla (4m 5s): Sure. My name is Priscilla. We live in Jackson Heights and for work I work at a nonprofit art studio supporting artists with disabilities.
Micah (4m 15s): And my name is Micah and I am an editor at The New Yorker.
Lisa (4m 19s): I love both of those professions. Those are so like New York. Love it. Very cool. Like that could be its own podcast. The New Yorker is my husband's favorite magazine. He's always been a big fan and artists with disabilities. That is so cool. We'll have to have a sidebar later and I would love to learn more about that maybe once you've gotten through initial postpartum.
Priscilla (4m 42s): Totally. I would love to. They're the best. Great.
Lisa (4m 44s): And remind us, maybe you just said this and I missed it. How long ago did you give birth? Sandy
Priscilla (4m 47s): Was born three weeks ago today.
Lisa (4m 50s): Great. Wow. You're in the trenches. So would you please first start by sharing a little bit whatever you'd like to share about your conception journey, your, your pregnancy journey?
Priscilla (5m 1s): Sure. So I started our story last year. I found out that I was pregnant at the end of April and we weren't really planning to get pregnant and we were really excited about it. And then I had a miscarriage about a month later and so that was just really obviously difficult and heartbreaking but very transformative just in terms of getting pregnant wasn't something that was necessarily hugely on my mind before that.
And when we found out I was so happy and excited and it was a nice push for me to not like officially make the decision of yes, this is something we're gonna try towards but we just like thrust towards that door accidentally and that yeah, turned a light on for both of us that that was something that we did really want and did feel ready for. So that was our entry into the journey. And then the next year was hard after I lost the pregnancy, it took about six months for me to start getting my period again.
So I went on this health journey and started working with an acupuncturist and ended up changing parts of my diet. And yeah, at first I was seeing an ob GYN who was amazing but like they were having trouble helping me regulate my hormones and get my body back to normal. And I started pursuing these more homeopathic holistic avenues that were really successful. And so that kind of opened my eyes to maybe this, these kinds of paths work better with my body and also were just making me feel like I had more agency and more of an active role in my health and my story.
And so that kind of played a role in how we ended up pursuing care for Sandy's pregnancy.
Lisa (6m 53s): Can I just ask with your miscarriage, and I'm so sorry for your loss for either of you, just the emotional journey of that or the relational dynamics with that, was there anything to note along those lines that might help other people who might experience that?
Priscilla (7m 7s): Yeah, it was terribly hard. What happened is, I think it just never, like we never even saw a heartbeat. So it was like I, I got a positive pregnancy test and then right from the beginning my progesterone and HHTC were both not progressing high enough. So I started taking hormones and just going to the doctor all the time. And so from the start it just felt things were challenging and a little iffy and I started bleeding and just, yeah, it was just this prolonged period of things not feeling quite like they should but just wanting so badly for it to work out.
So it was different from I think someone's experience that is going really well and then suddenly there's this shift. It always felt very rocky and uncertain and yeah, it was hard to want something so badly and not be in control of it at all and just be asking is there anything that I can do to help or any changes that I can make and just really just have to wait Day after day was really hard and I think by the end it was horrible but at least just knowing what was happening there was like some relief just because for so long yeah, we just couldn't really see anything inside.
But the doctors were like, but you never know. Like it could just be a slow tiny little baby, come back soon. Yeah, I mean it, it was hard to just feel like so distant from your body was something I had never felt before. Normally it's just like you feel pretty in control of how things are going and to feel so foreign and removed from what was happening and have so little ability to affect it was really hard. And yeah, we were super excited and told everyone in our lives right away so that was hard.
It's like the first grandparent for both of our families. So everyone was really sweet and I actually, I'm so happy we told people 'cause it was really amazing to have all of their support. But it was also just like a lot of people checking in, a lot of people asking about how it was going. A lot of people rooting for something that was not happening. But I think it also just gave the whole journey a really full spectrum to it. Like it felt like loss was always a part of our pregnancy this year in a way that made it feel fuller.
And I felt like death and birth were always very closely intertwined throughout the whole journey in a way that ended up being kind of beautiful. And I've had so many friends who have had similar things happen and miscarriages happen all the time obviously. And so it's been nice to have experienced that. I feel like it's just such a huge part of the pregnancy journey with so much distance from it. I feel grateful that I can connect with more people and just it feels like an important part of the journey for me now.
Lisa (9m 58s): Thank you for sharing that. Yeah, I was gonna ask Micah If you had any reflections
Micah (10m 4s): I, I mean all of what Priscilla said but yeah I feel two things that sort of stuck out to me when you were talking as like one, the sort of choice to tell. It's not like we told everyone but we told our family and close friends and on the one hand that obviously was painful and complicated when we found out that we had lost the pregnancy, but I also don't think I would do it another way. And I feel like in all aspects of pregnancy but especially miscarriage, there's such a kind of aura of privacy and secrecy, especially in the early days, which I totally understand and obviously it depends on your circumstance and your relationship with your family et cetera.
But it did feel crazy to be going through something like that and not have the people that we were closest to know about it and be able to support us. So I think even though it was really hard obviously to have that kind of swerve happen, it was also really wonderful to have everyone kind of show up in that way. So there was that. And then I guess the other thing too is I just had always imagined that a miscarriage was like a single moment where you could go to the doctor and they're like, you've had a miscarriage.
Which I mean I guess that does happen eventually, but there is this kind of, or at least for us as Priscilla described, there was this kind of prolonged not knowing part of it, which I just hadn't really expected and and I feel like that's challenging in its own way 'cause it's not even bad news, it's just the sort of like threat of bad news looming over you for weeks and weeks, which is like a whole nother kind of psychological challenge that I don't think I was really prepared for. And I think it just is really hard to have that kind of not knowingness to be in that sort of suspended state for so long where you can't even really like mourn something you don't even really know what's happening.
You feel very out of control. So I was surprised by that dimension of the experience and I think it's just important to check in with each other a bunch throughout that process obviously.
Priscilla (11m 60s): Yeah, it's also weird because nothing physical or tangible in your life has changed yet but it feels like you've just totally transformed everything and like the story of your life has changed shape but nothing physical has taken shape. So it was a weird thing to mourn 'cause it's so imaginary but so powerful and yeah, there's no physical changes. My body felt the same and it was just this kind of like door had closed or the sense of possibility.
It was a very strange, strange kind of grief.
Micah (12m 34s): Yeah,
Lisa (12m 36s): Thank you. Those are really powerful reflections and it just really brings to the surface points out the wide array of the way loss can happen because what you're describing is a process. It wasn't just oh there's a miscarriage suddenly whereas other ones are more sudden. And also just the thought of someone's decision early in pregnancy, whether or not to share that 'cause so many people do wait until they've passed the first they're, they've gone into the second trimester.
But I love that you had shared and you would do it again even though it's hard. It it's, yeah it really depends. Like you said Micah, somebody's dynamics with their family and the tricky thing I think is you can't predict how people will support or if they'll be supportive because so much harm can happen in people meaning well and saying hurtful words. But even if that happens, some people still would be grateful for the support even if there were some mistakes along the way, which we all make mistakes of course.
But yeah, those are just a couple things that came to mind and so thank you for sharing that. So you were talking about how transformative that experience was and seeing an acupuncturist and making different nutritional changes and leaving the OB and making different decisions. Do you wanna pick up there?
Priscilla (14m 3s): Yeah, so yeah I started getting my period again and we were starting to think about trying to get pregnant again and yeah I think like I had felt so out of control the year before that it was really a priority for me to make the experience feel almost like an art project or something like just something that I was putting effort and attention in and just felt a little bit more involved with the journey of, so one thing that I started doing was like making offerings to a Jewish Moroccan mystic who I was just like writing him letters, like telling him we were trying to get pregnant, just doing fun things that I felt like I don't quite know where this is going but it's making me feel good.
Like in the same way that changing my diet, it felt like I was involved in not just like this body that was having like an alien possession occur and I was like a passive boom.
Micah (15m 7s): We should note that the Jewish Moroccan mystic died like 80 years ago.
Priscilla (15m 12s): Yes. But yeah and my dad also passed away and our baby's named after him. So I would ask him for support a lot and we would just start pouring drinks for them and yeah, just made the experience feel not so medical and more like personal and spiritual and creative and then also we're doing the peeing on the stick and taking my temperature and all that stuff too. And then yeah, when we found out I was pregnant it was a surprise because like that month we were taking a month off 'cause it was my best friend's wedding and I wanted to party and then at her wedding was dancing and was like, I feel weird, my boobs feel weird.
And ended up figuring out that I was pregnant the next day. So the time was not totally planned but like in the moment we were like whoa, okay. So we found out and the beginning was tough. I felt super nauseous. My work was based in this temporary location that was like this airless basement and just had a lot of lunches being microwaved the food scents were driving me nuts. I was like taping my nose up with masking tape and walking around looking totally wild.
And I think it's a testament to just how weird I must present myself at work. No one really even said anything about it. They were just like, okay, you're taping your nose up, you're an artist. Yeah. But that part was really hard just like, and also I felt really sad and just it was hard for me to participate in the things that like made me feel like myself and made me feel joyful and I was just like sleeping through the days and yeah, I didn't tell as many people this time so I remember like talking to my family on my birthday when I felt really sick and just crying and they were like, what's wrong?
And I was like nothing. So in retrospect I was like, this sucks. I definitely prefer the telling them earlier kind of route. So yeah, so that part was really tough but after everyone kept being like after the first trimester you'll feel better after the first trimester and literally like the day that it ended I feel like I bounced out of bed and It was like, all right, let's go. And really did. Yeah. It's funny when your body does do the textbook thing sometimes it just really does do it.
Like on the day you're like, wow, okay, what a relief. Yeah because sometimes that's not people's story and it's Yeah, no I was, I always hope for that. Totally. I was very grateful. Yeah, I would say that was the emotionally hardest time for me even more than postpartum and stuff. Like I felt really far from myself and my ability to feel regulated and happy And then after that I felt like I was very grateful to feel really great the whole rest of the pregnancy.
And yeah, I love being pregnant. It was really fun. Everyone in New York is so nice to you on the street. Loved getting those seats on the subway. Been waiting for that my whole life.
Lisa (18m 20s): You got them good. I'm so glad. That's also not always the story.
Priscilla (18m 27s): Totally. I would give sad puppy dog eyes until someone stood up.
Lisa (18m 30s): Good.
Priscilla (18m 31s): Yeah. What else?
Micah (18m 32s): But I think that basically tracks, yeah, first trimester you were totally eviscerated and exhausted and seemed like a shell of your former self. And similar to the discussion we were having about the miscarriage, like it just seems so inconvenient that the one part of pregnancy when it's traditional not to tell anyone is the time when you're feeling the worst. Especially as the person who's actually carrying the child. It just felt ludicrous to me that you were like going to work and throwing up in the morning. I'm not telling anyone feeling sick all day.
It just is so crazy that that is how it goes. Again, I understand the reasons but yeah, I thought that was very brave to behold. And then yeah, it really was as you described, like a light switch and then for the next stretch yeah, you seemed like yourself 2.0 in a way you were like had more energy and were like bouncing around a lot. And then it is, I think also in contrast to the sort of like miscarriage thing we were talking about where it's like the sort of not knowing and that's also true in the first trimester too. You feel really miserable but you don't see any physical changes and then once your body starts to really change and respond, there's like this kind of beautiful cool process that you can latch onto.
So it just becomes very tangible in a way that can be very exciting and grounding after lots of time spent in your own head. In the realm of the hypothetical,
Priscilla (19m 52s): I also, I was bleeding a lot also in the first trimester of this pregnancy. And so there was a lot of fear and anxiety and expecting that it wouldn't work out again. So that was also a big part of the story. It was hard to feel trust in my body and that things would work out. And so I felt like I couldn't even feel the excited part of the experience 'cause I was just like, oh this is happening again. And then, yeah and then it was totally okay. Thank God
Micah (20m 23s): I totally forgot about that part shockingly because it was really intense. Yeah, there was like periods where you were bleeding like enough that we were like really freaked out and like I remember one morning in particular when you woke up and or we woke up and you had bled a lot and the night and It was like, we thought for sure that it was another miscarriage and you were crying really intensely and I was crying and we like rushed to the doctor and we did a bunch of trips after that too and they did the ultrasound and it turned out everything was fine. So I guess that's another thing too that I didn't really know is that it's pretty common to bleed in the first trimester and it's not necessarily a sign of a miscarriage, but obviously it's like a very shocking, jarring thing to see.
Sure. And previous experience with the miscarriage then of course your brain goes to that spot. So that definitely added to the yeah, the kind of stress of the first trimester.
Lisa (21m 14s): So then at what point did you start thinking about home birth? Did you think about that before like even before you conceived or at what point did that happen?
Priscilla (21m 23s): Some people had asked me about it and I always was like, I'm way too anxious for that. Like I, I can't. And then my cousin got pregnant around the same time as me and she sent me a copy of Ina May Gaskin's Spiritual Midwifery and I loved it. It's just all these firsthand accounts of this midwife and who facilitated births in the seventies like on the road in this like beautiful hippie commune in, in these school buses and just delivered like hundreds of babies.
And so it's all the women who she worked with talking about their births in these very hippy dippy psychedelic language where they don't describe it as pain, they describe it as these rushes of intensity and they're just like making out with their husbands the entire time and like rubbing on each other. And then it's, and then the baby came out and it just was these really beautiful pleasure filled accounts of birth that were very different than the experiences that I had heard about from people I knew and seen on TV and whatever.
And it seemed definitely like on the extreme end it was very seventies hippie dippy life on a bus but just got me thinking. And then also my experience working to get my hormones back on track, post miscarriage. I definitely felt like my body was responding better to these really simple more natural paths than taking progesterone every day. And which didn't help jumpstart my period. So I was just like, okay, maybe these things work better for me and started thinking about it. Also, I have a neighbor who lives in the same apartment as me who gave birth at home and she told me about her experience and it just sounded completely different than any other birth that I just never heard anyone say they had a positive experience that would do it again soon.
And, and yeah, it just sounded beautiful and I love being at home. Like I'm a huge homebody. I was just like, sounds great to not, yeah, to not leave the house always looking for an excuse to cancel plans and yeah, my, my big experience in a hospital was my dad being sick and passing away. So I, I'm not traumatized by hospitals but they definitely give me negative associations and yeah, I'm very sensitive to vibes. So I was just like, at first we, I thought of it as I was worried that it was like a selfish decision.
I was like, this feels more pleasurable for me and has this possibility for being this kind of like spiritual profound experience that was obviously intriguing to me, but I was worried that it was less safe for the child and I, I kept thinking of it as is it worth it for you to have this special experience but and put the child at risk. And then the more I started learning about it, and especially taking your class Lisa, It was so amazing to hear how much evidence actually supported home birth being really more safe than hospitals in a lot of ways.
And so that yeah, made me feel super confident and happy and changed that narrative for me. And once I started, I talked to a bunch of midwives and I just felt so satisfied by the answers that they were giving me to medical questions. They just felt extremely knowledgeable, had delivered hundreds of babies and were really talking things through with me more, having more faith in my ability to like, understand and be an active participant in the process than like a don't worry about it, I got it type thing.
And I really felt like I could be in the driver's seat and say, I still wanna be super cautious about this and if anything is feeling weird, let's go to the hospital. I'm not super devoted to staying at home saying that was really helpful for me to just say I'm an anxious person, I'm a super cautious person. Like I, I wanna make sure that this is done super conservatively as much as possible. And yeah, I just, I also loved the idea of the prenatal care with a midwife.
Like talking to me about my feelings and treating you like a human, treating me like a human. Yeah. Wow. Yeah, like I was, I I I am not seeing a therapist right now and was just like, oh it sounds so nice to also be so much of the experience of psychological and it's such huge crazy time and transformation and, and yeah, not like it's a substitute for therapy but it, it was really helpful to have that aspect of it and
Micah (25m 58s): As someone who went, sorry to jump in. Yeah. But as someone who went to both versions of appointments with you, 'cause like we decided you, you had your regular OB and then we decided on a midwife like once the pregnancy had progressed quite a bit, I think actually It was like maybe like four months in or five months in and your, the normal OB is actually like really great. Like Priscilla really likes her a lot. She's an incredibly warm, lovely person and like really great care. But it just is so laughably different from the like you go in with her and it's like you're immediately checked and you're in a medical office and you're really in and out.
Like time with the doctor has 15 minutes max. And that was like a good experience with the midwife, like she comes to our apartment and she would be here for an hour before we would even start talking about anything physically happening to you or before she took your blood pressure or started doing actual pregnancy care. And it was just like, how's your diet? How are you feeling? How's your movement? What do you know? I mean just was so much more than pregnancy as a narrow medicalized procedure that it just felt like a sort of portal to another world.
And that was how it felt to read that spiritual midwifery book too, which was like, and I I, I admit I was like slightly skeptical at first 'cause I also think of myself as like relatively neurotic person and I was like thinking like, oh my god, to not be in the hospital is so unsafe. No way. And you read these stories and at first you're just like, are these people kidding? This is crazy. Like they're describing these like ecstatic orgasmic experiences and it's, and not even just some of them are describing literally orgasmic experiences but also just the whole flavor of the process was just like so infused with like joy and wonderment and it just was so different than any account of birth I'd ever heard before.
People often describe the birth of their children as the best day or days of their lives, but it's always after the actual birth has happened, never the process. And this book weirdly and amazingly is like all about the process, which is framed in those terms and it just had like never even occurred to me before that was a possibility. So anyway, yeah, I thought that was, I thought that was like a very cool way to think about it. And then It was like a lot of Priscilla and I had a similar I think journey in the sense of, okay, this seems like it'd be a much better experience for us, but then what about the baby?
Is this dangerous or foolish to not be in a hospital? And then the more you read or take classes like Lisa's, you start to realize that actually there are lots of really specific things that you wanna be sure of in advance and there's certain controls that you wanna put in place, et cetera. But a lot of the stuff that happens at home is actually perfectly safe. And in some ways the interventions that can happen when you're in the hospital can put you on the track, not necessarily towards something that's unsafe, but just not having the birth experience that you want. Like leading to a C-section that you didn't want or being induced earlier than you wanted to or just not being able to be comfortable enough to labor in the way that you want.
And so it went from initially a sort of thing of, oh we just don't want to do this in the hospital. Oh my god, this is gonna be better for us and for the baby.
Priscilla (28m 57s): Yeah. And I think the kind of core question for me at the end was I was just scared not knowing what it would feel like and felt like It is funny that no one can really tell you what it feels like. And so just being like, can I trust myself to enter this total unknown situation and trust that I can do it on my own a little bit more? And so that was like the core question for me going in.
And so that was a lot of what I was like working on in the final months of the pregnancy was just really trying to trust myself and that like I was being drawn towards this thing and that like I was being drawn towards it for a reason and that was something to believe in and not shut myself out of. And that was something that Chloe Campbell, who was the midwife that we worked with who was absolutely incredible in every way said, was just like often people who are drawn towards home birth are meant to have a home birth. Like if you're feeling the pull towards it, like that's information that you should listen to and that sometimes means that it's like a good fit for you.
Lisa (30m 3s): Yeah. And only if you're feeling pulled. Yeah. Because like in the pandemic, a lot of people were wanting a home birth out of fear of being in the hospital and all the midwives were like, no, that's not a good reason to plan a home birth. Please do not. Yeah.
Micah (30m 19s): And there is, yeah, there is some stuff that you like, I don't wanna be like too rosy eye about it. Like there there is some stuff that you give up like you're, it's all trade offs, right? Because a lot of the kind of monitoring and assurances that you get in the hospital can also lead to these undesirable, again, not necessarily unsafe but undesirable outcomes. But it is, well
Lisa (30m 39s): ACOG has said it's leading to worse outcomes.
Micah: Oh wow.
Lisa: I mean that there are absolutely plenty of circumstances in which those interventions are called for and necessary, but so many that they're just, it's just overused. And ACOG acknowledges that. It's
Micah (30m 53s): Good to know. I mean, yeah, if you're in the hospital, the fetal heart rate is constantly being monitored. And as a parent obviously that's assuring because if there's some sort of deceleration in the heart rate or something's going wrong, you know about it immediately and then you can address it. And there are probably some cases on the margin where something really does go wrong. And If you are in the hospital and it is being monitored like that, you will know and be able to intervene sooner than you would obviously If you were at home. But in the vast majority of cases, it sounds like that kind of constant monitoring actually isn't necessary. In some ways it's harmful and it also restricts your movement and you're not able to labor in the way that you want and it can lead to other bad things.
So anyway, it's just like a lot of stuff like that where you're having to make these kind of judgments. And I guess, yeah, I would just, I, I was also surprised, I felt like doing the home birth thing was gonna just be a sort of leap of faith. Like you just say like All right, we're forsaking the hospital and we're just going for home birth and we're putting our lives and fate in the hands of this midwife. And it actually turns out there's just like a ton of information about this and studies that are on the internet or in classes like yours Lisa. And so you can actually look and feel like you're making a really scientifically medically informed decision.
Like it's not like western medicine or some crazy hippy dippy bullshit. It's like you're in, you're still in the kind of like western medical context. You're just choosing one route or another.
Lisa (32m 10s): Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love those reflections. And going back to, I just love that you also read spiritual midwifery. My god, that's so cool.
Priscilla (32m 21s): Each other like one story at a time. Yeah we, it was trying to grow his hair out for the birth quite make it full. Yeah.
Lisa (32m 31s): I love that. And so it sounds like you were both on eventually, at least on the same page in terms of choosing to give birth at home.
Priscilla (32m 38s): Yeah, I think we have pretty similar temperaments. I think on the surface I'm definitely much more like a spiritual Woo than Micah, but I think we both are also very grounded and anxious. Yeah. But I think Micah was especially feeling really confident and positive after your birth class just because there were so many evidence-based examples of all of these small things in a hospital that are not to your benefit.
I remember something so small as like having an IV giving you fluids versus just being able to drink water or just, it felt like half of the class like you were like and y'all don't have to really worry about this 'cause you're doing it at home. And that just felt so nice. It felt like we had already made the decision but that was when we really were feeling super duper pleased with it, we were already pleased but I would always say we're gonna try to give birth at home. And I was very okay with transferring to the hospital. I knew that was a really big possibility and I was like, even if I just get the prenatal midwife care and then end up giving birth in hospital, like that's so fine with me.
And that was like my hedge to allow myself to go there without a hundred percent being committed to it. Yeah,
Lisa (33m 50s): I love that. And I, Priscilla, I love your reflection on interviewing midwives and how reassuring that was to learn about, it's not like they don't have safety precautions or they, in fact, when I interviewed home birth midwives in my second pregnancy, the thing that really, one thing that really sold me was being told, and actually I think it was in the business of being born documentary, I think she said it as well 'cause my home birth midwife was the main one in that film. She said something like, I am the guardian of safety.
I'm like, I'm there to be very hands off and I'm the guardian If there's ever any concern or issue, that's what I'm there for. And that was just like, wow, that makes so much sense. And to learn like the many ways in which they're equipped to handle a lot of the most common complications. And so reassuring. And Micah, as you were talking about the trade-offs between a hospital birth and a home birth, one thing that occurred to me is that when you were talking about like monitoring and concerned about like D cells and things, someone said, I think a midwife one time said something along the lines that really resonated with me as well of the baby and the birthing person's body are telling us a story, meaning that we have a lot of details, a lot of information where, you know yeah, we're still monitoring just less frequently in a home birth and all these other ways, pieces of the puzzle, these clues to where that story is giving us a a heads up 99% of the time way before it becomes a true emergency.
So that we pretty much always have plenty of time if we need to go to the hospital. And in New York we have hospitals on almost every block. So that was something that really when I was pregnant and choosing home birth, that really, those things really were reassuring to me to just realize those things that aren't as obvious when you first think about it.
Priscilla (35m 51s): Totally. And that was something all the midwives we interviewed also stressed was like we do hospital transfers. Not frequently, but like it happens, but they hardly ever call the ambulance, like super last minute emergency thing. She was like, it's mostly people get exhausted and change their mind and decide they wanna go to the hospital or it's Yeah. Something that we talk about and it's not this red alarm situation that was like haunting me. Yeah.
Micah (36m 18s): Or like babies breach, which we know weeks in advance and have to then ultimately make that call. But it's, yeah, it's not like you're bleary-eyed middle of the night dialing 9 1 1 kind of situation.
Priscilla (36m 28s): Yeah. She was like, if that was the norm we wouldn't do this then it wouldn't be a safe option.
Lisa (36m 34s): Hmm. So when did you decide to hire your doula? Was that before or after you chose to, to give birth at home?
Priscilla (36m 42s): It was around the same time. Yeah. I think around from the 15 to 17 week mark, I was really in the books interviewing all these people because I had been seeing the same OB that had given me my IUD when I was like 20. So I just like a light went on that I could curate my care and I got really excited about that and I ended up working with Chana Diamond who's absolutely incredible and I think I felt really drawn to her after listening to her tell her birth story on your podcast.
And I thought she was just so funny and grounded but also super spiritual and I love how she was like incorporating Jewish practices into different elements of her birth and we're Jewish. So I was like, I was into that and yeah, she had a very like maternal loving presence about her, but also very no nonsense. And I felt like a lot of doulas were just super open and like when I would say, what's your style?
What, what do you have something traditional that you bring to your births? Like they were very much like, it's whatever you want. And I felt like Chana had a little bit more like telling it like it is I, I felt like she was cradling me a little bit more, giving like a little bit more direction, which especially in the home birth setting, I liked that She made me feel like especially taking care of and I was like adding a little bit of a practical no-nonsense flavor that I think I was like, okay, we're doing this home birth things are a little bit more like freewheeling and Chana's making me feel really cared for and like she's not gonna bring any bullshit.
Yeah. I don't know. She made me feel very safe.
Lisa (38m 25s): That's exactly what you want and need in any birth scenario. Yeah. But I can see, especially in like you said in a home birth scenario, all the more reassuring. Yeah. I'm so glad you found a great fit in her. And I've, I just treasure her. She, I love her so much. She's one of my favorite people and I've known her of the doulas in my collective. I've known her by far the longest. Yeah. We go way back to my days when I lived in Forest Hills and she did too. And we were just starting birth work like over a decade ago.
Priscilla (38m 55s): Yeah, she's wonderful. She's absolutely amazing. I love her a lot.
Lisa (38m 59s): Any other reflections on the prenatal journey that you wanted to mention before you go into your birth story?
Priscilla (39m 8s): I don't think so. Yeah, I think we covered it. Yeah.
Lisa (39m 11s): Okay. So you can start wherever you want. It can be how labor started or it can be the days or weeks leading up to it, whatever you choose.
Priscilla (39m 22s): Yeah, I guess I'll just go into it. So my water broke three weeks early, which was a big surprise. I kept thinking, I had heard that your first birth, you're likely to be late. And for some reason I just really had this strong feeling that I would be walking around at 42 weeks, like super anxious just being like, when is this gonna happen? Although people told me to be ready, I really was not expecting that would be the way things went for me.
And we were having dinner at our dining room table, it was right after Thanksgiving and we were having leftovers and, and I had been really feeling good going, we had just been to a show last night, we'd had people over for Thanksgiving. Yeah. I felt pretty normal and like up and Micah told a joke and I started laughing and I was like, oh, I think I'm peeing my pants. And then it didn't stop and you were kind of like examining this wet spot on the chair and we're just like, oh shit, okay.
And yeah, we, I've never seen Micah. So like I texted this like, and I'd actually been texting with my neighbor who was also pregnant and was due a few days earlier and I wasn't due for a few more weeks and she was just like, I'm never gonna give birth. You're gonna give birth before me. And I was like, ha, don't say that. And then truly my water broke like an hour later and I texted, oh what? Two days? Yeah. Yeah. So of course I'm thinking like my contractions are gonna start right away. So Michael runs to the grocery, gets coconut water and like miso soup and comes back and we tell her, we tell Chana our doula and then Chloe our midwife has been in South Africa for a month helping her best friend deliver a birth and she's supposed to come back the next morning.
So we're just like, and we'd always known that she was gonna be gone and we're like, she'll be back right at seven, at 37 weeks. Perfect. And so I texted her just like, my water broke so happy you'll be back tomorrow. And she said actually that she was on the flight to come home and there were mechanical problems on the plane and they canceled the flight and there wasn't another one going out for another 24 hours. So she was like, I actually won't be there tomorrow, but the next day. And she was like, maybe we'll wait for me, maybe not. And another midwife had been visiting us in the meantime who was also great, but obviously that was a big scary thing.
And yeah, I, I think a big theme for this part of the pregnancy for us or of the birth was the story that you gave us of the descent of anana and this folk tale or myth about the journey to descend into the underworld and giving up all of these things that you think you are depending on and you think that you need. And that at the end all you really have is yourself and your baby and that's enough. But I had been really trying to like practice not being attached to any element of the birth that I was hoping for.
And I would say that was quite tested in the period leading up to the birth because yeah, we were just like, okay, maybe the midwife that we've been depending this whole thing on is not gonna make it and all this stuff. So that was like a really beautiful part of your class that was hugely spiritually helpful for me during this period of uncertainty. 'cause I ended up not going into labor for quite a while. So the next day we were just trying to stay calm and we went to the farmer's market, walked around the neighborhood, did some curb walking, made a nice b and then yeah, just the hours kept going by and, and everyone was checking in, being like, do you feel anything?
And I felt totally normal. And in the afternoon an acupuncturist came over and gave acupuncture to try to like jumpstart contractions and had us lie on the couch and tell each other our love story to get oxytocin flowing, which was very sweet. And
Lisa (43m 27s): May I ask, was this Stephanie proper?
Priscilla (43m 29s): It was, it was, yeah. Yeah. She is awesome.
Lisa (43m 31s): She does great home visits. Awesome.
Priscilla (43m 33s): Yeah, that was really fun. And then, yeah, then the night rolled around, we watched a romcom, went to sleep and yeah, just at that point I was feeling like my contractions were never gonna start. And it was also nice, we told our families when, when my water broke. And so my mom and sisters live in California and they came out right away thinking probably they wouldn't be there for the birth but would get to meet the baby. And it ended up that there was enough time in between that they got to be there for the birth, which was really awesome.
And yeah, my, they had been asking a lot in advance if they could come for the birth and if I would want them there. And I really couldn't tell what it would be like and what I would want. So I was, come over and we'll see and I'll kick you out if I wanna kick you out. So they
Lisa: Perfect strategy.
Priscilla: Yeah, the strategy. So they got there Monday morning and yeah, by that time it had been, oh yeah, we had heard that like most people's labor starts after 24 hours and now it was like 36 hours and nothing had happened.
And in, in hospital land they really like you to give birth within 24 hours If you water breaking and I, or at least for labor to start extra. Yeah. And I'd also found out post water breaking that I was positive for group B strep, which I didn't know. So that was like another thing added into the mix, which it, so there was already like once your water breaks, the big risk is like getting an infection, which the risk grows the longer that you've gone with your water being broken and then having the strep bacteria just like increase that risk.
So we were just starting to think about at what point we would call it and go to the hospital and it was just being like in the middle of these two worlds of our midwife was like saying that there was solid evidence of the risks of infection up to 96 hours. And at 96 there was like a four to 8% risk, which is what's not huge, but it's significant. And then after that 96 mark, they don't really know, but they were very much, it's still early, you're gonna give birth.
Eventually I had this very calm approach of let your body do what it needs to do, but also whenever you want to switch tracks, go to the hospital. But then we were just thinking about at the hospital, if we show up after 48 hours after 56 hours, they're gonna think of that as being really risky and unsafe already. And so we were just worried about walking into that. It could be a lot of shaming. Yeah. Yeah. And just like right away being treated, this has to be rushed from the start and, and not having enough time to labor.
So yeah, that was the hard balance was like the longer we wait, are we just gonna be treated like crazy people when we get to the hospital and are we gonna then have less time to let things progress naturally in that setting? So that was really stressful and, and Chloe, our midwife, ended up coming home Monday and, and came over and I was at that point really coming to terms with the fact that, okay, it's really looking like we're gonna go to the hospital and, and get an induction and that, and we were maybe tonight or maybe tomorrow morning, we'll call it and that'll be that.
And so we had to cry about it and we're like, okay. Like, yeah, it was funny to go through so much deliberation about the home birth and then just be like, oh, and now we're not doing it after all. But ended up and labor kicked in. So Chloe recommended taking a castor oil smoothie, which is like a really strong laxative that can also jumpstart contraction. So we made a smoothie of orange juice and almond butter and castor oil. And I took some and felt really nauseous, threw up and then didn't really feel much.
So I was like, whatever, I'm, I'm gonna take a nap. And then when I woke up from the nap, I felt strange and crampy and took a second to orient what was happening. And then I was like, okay, I think this is it. I think it's happening. And then we were excited.
Lisa (47m 44s): So how many hours did the contraction start from the time that your water broke or days?
Micah (47m 50s): It was like Saturday night at 9:00 PM was when your water broke and you started having contractions at 3:30 PM on Monday. Yeah, like 36 ish hours. A little bit more. A little bit, yeah. Almost. Yeah, almost 48. Yeah.
Priscilla (48m 4s): Yeah. So we had made per year class, like a list of early labor activities to distract ourselves and we'd already done some of them in the waiting period for things to start, but Chana was like, okay, great, you're in labor, decorate your cake, go on a walk. And right away I was like, this really hurts. Like I can't do anything right now. And I think for some reason the water breaking or the castor oil, like I skipped the early labor part and from the start the contractions were pretty intense and happening like two to three minutes apart and we were just like by ourselves in the apartment being like, is this right?
This feels like it's happening really fast.
Micah (48m 44s): Yeah, I was like, exact or Yeah, like I was timing the contractions. Yeah. They started off and just like immediately were pretty intense. And I started to time them and at first they were maybe five or six minutes apart, but I was really patting them because I was like, this is crazy. Like I, I had known from your class that like, they should be much further apart. And I was like, I must be like timing them wrong or like we're getting like the start point wrong or whatever. And, but it really was like right off the bat, I think the first one I timed was like five minutes. I think I told you it was like six minutes or something because I was like, this can't be right, I must be screwing this up somehow.
And then It was like four minutes and then It was like three minutes and yeah, we just texted our doula Chana and, and midwife Chloe and we're just, I don't know if we're like not doing something right, but it definitely seems like these are happening like pretty fast and you guys should probably come sooner rather than later. And then they totally did. They were like, great, we'll be there. We'll be there soon.
Priscilla (49m 36s): Yeah. So by six o'clock I was blacked out. We were really in the birth world and we had my two sisters and Micah's sister and my mom all came over and Chana was there and Chloe was there and it was really awesome. Like it was just this house packed full of ladies who were all just being like, so supportive and amazing and like everyone was taking turns giving me massages and it was just relaxing and beautiful.
And I was just mostly in different positions on the couch and taking little walks around the apartment, taking a shower. And I just felt so good to be like, it's happening. It just felt, I, I I felt very much able to get into the mindset of like, me and the contractions are on the same side and we have to work together and yeah, it just, from the long waiting period, I just felt so happy that we were at home and it was happening and like, it was just like this, the story that I had hoped for.
So I think that gave like a lot of additional boost of strength for the intensity of it was just, I was so grateful that we were able to have the experience that we had planned to have. Were there
Lisa (50m 54s): Specific coping tools that you found effective at different times?
Priscilla (50m 56s): Definitely massage was really super helpful and I felt like able to just tell someone like lower right and just like exactly where to touch and that was really amazing. And then I felt like Chana was really amazing in her like verbal encouragement of just helping me stay really present in each contraction as its own experience and not thinking too much about what had happened in the past or what had happened in the future. And just being like, this wave is peaking now, let it go.
And just really encouraging me that like it was happening, my body's doing what it needs to do, my baby knows what it needs to do. Just yeah, like just everyone was being so kind and loving the shower was also amazing. When I was in the shower, I felt like I could stay there all day and it really took a lot of the pain away and touching Micah was really nice. I feel like I would just throw myself into his neck and just feeling his hands and, and looking into his eyes, like all of that was really nice.
And we're doing a lot of the things from your class, like the humming, the square breathing, a lot of low moaning singing sounds and I like circling my hips. It was really nice. Like I was trying to like move with the contractions and popsicles. I was really enjoying popsicles in between the contractions. I was like, I just felt like all my senses were very elevated. So as much as the things that were hurting, things that were pleasurable felt really good and relieving a cold sip of water, a grape, like a hug from someone, it felt all that felt as heightened as the contraction.
So I felt like I was feeling a lot of pleasure along with the pain. So it felt manageable and yeah, I felt just so relieved. I just feel like for so long I felt so scared and so much anxiety of what will it feel like, will I be able to handle it? And just being in it felt much easier for me to handle than the not knowing and the waiting. So I was just like, all right, it's happening. This is how people are born. This is crazy. And yeah, and being at home was so incredible to be able to have like low lighting and be in my pajamas and yeah, just surrounded by, we also had all our friends make drawings of sheela na gig like fertility, totem women with big butts and that were like hung up all around the house.
So yeah, it just felt like fun and surrounded by reminders of things that I love, which was really nice.
Lisa (53m 35s): Hmm. I love it. Micah, how about your experience during all of this? Any reflections?
Micah (53m 42s): Yeah, it was, this part of it was, it was totally amazing. I was mostly in awe of Priscilla and just trying to support her as best I could because even with the sort of decision to do the midwife, et cetera, I feel like it was very important for both partners to be on board. But at the end of the day, it was really her decision to do it. I'm like, she's the one who ultimately is giving birth to the child. And so it's really of her journey and it's both of our journeys. But I'm definitely in the supporting role. But it was, but I could totally sense all the things that she's describing when the contractions happen.
They were very intense, but she was able to cope with them. And then I could totally sense the kind of heightened pleasurable experiences when they had subsided. And it was a wild experience to see them happening. Like it really is just a very weird flitting back and forth between worlds. Like she would just go blank and be in this unreachable place during the contraction. And then when it ended would really just open her eyes again and be like, Hey, like what's up? Like just completely back to herself.
So like you had the sense of her kind of entering and leaving her own body, like in this kind of rhythmic way over the course of the labor. But yeah, it was, I similarly was unsure whether it would be nice or stressful to have so many family members there. But it was incredible. Like it was just like to have, Priscilla has two sisters. I have one sister, her mom, Chana, Chloe. Like it just felt like we had so many people who loved you there in the space and could just like all take turns like doing the counter pressure and massaging.
Yeah, getting popsicles. It really just felt like this, like collective experience. I, I don't know, it was just, it was so beautiful. It just felt like this very kind of old world. It felt so far from anything medical, like I, I can't even explain. It felt more akin to kind of like psychedelic drug experience than in a medical procedure of any kind. And Priscilla at that point had not even had a cervical exam and never had one actually for the entire duration of the pregnancy. And there was just no, I don't know. It just was like, it, it, it just, it just felt great.
It was like, it was, yeah. And like Priscilla said, we were like walking around the apartment and we were like playing records and there were like candles lit and at one point the sisters and Priscilla's mom went out to get Thai food and then came back a couple hours later and like me and Priscilla and Chana just did our thing and then I took a little break and had some Thai food and the sister stepped in. Yeah, it just was like a very uncomfortable space that just accommodated Priscilla based on what she needed. And we just flowed from sort of room to room. I don't know, it was really cool. It was much cooler than I thought it would be.
Lisa (56m 24s): I'm so glad. And I'm just getting chilled. I'm just like, that is so gorgeous. Just envisioning that and I'm jealous. I'm like, I wish I could have been there.
Priscilla (56m 38s): Just all sisters and mom
Lisa (56m 39s):. Oh, so great. And I love that you have no cervical checks. That's really cool. That's pretty more common with home birth midwives 'cause it's just like an unnecessary surveillance risk of infection. Yeah.
Micah (56m 54s): Yeah. It was like that, that part of it. And then also just the whole midwife home birth experience. It just felt like there was no timer on anything either. And like I obviously have, this is our first child and so like I haven't had the hospital experience but like I get the sense from the stories that I've heard that like you very much feel that clock ticking or you feel the sort of world intruding and it just felt so out of time. Like I feel like I put my phone down at like three 30 and I, I just really had no conception of what time it even was.
Like whether we were supposed to be eating or not. Like what, it just felt like this complete kind of like other space in a way that
Lisa (57m 32s): Trippy really
Micah (57m 32s): Nice.
Lisa (57m 34s): It was psychedelic. Yeah. Yeah. Labor land, which we call labor land. Yeah.
Priscilla (57m 38s): Yeah. Yes. Yeah. And then at some point I started to feel like pushy and was surprised 'cause it felt like everything was happening quite fast and, and yeah, my mom had been in labor for 36 hours with me, so I had always expected a longer time, but it had been like eight hours and so were like, okay. So we blew up a tub in the dining room area and I got in and, yeah, I would say at that point we all probably thought maybe it was coming out pretty soon and the pushing ended up being long and hard.
I would say that was definitely my hardest part. It was like four hours. And I think also just not quite being sure if I was fully dilated at that point, or what was happening. I also don't have a bathtub and love taking baths. So I think I just got so relaxed in the bathtub that I was like, I'm not doing the contractions as frequently anymore. And it
Micah (58m 32s): Is true, like at one point the midwife was, okay, so I think we should actually get out of the bath. The contraction started to slow down and Priscilla was truly just like arms up on the side of the pool, like really
Lisa (58m 41s): Loving it.
Micah (58m 41s): I think it was actually like a really nice break in the end. 'cause there was like many hours left of pushing after that. But it was funny, like once you got into the pool, everyone, the vibe in the room is very much okay, the baby's gonna be out like in 30 minutes. And that was definitely not the case.
Priscilla (58m 56s): Yeah. So we had time in the bath, then we used a birthing stool, then we were on my bed, like two people were pulling my like legs back and open and Micah and I were both tugging different sides of a big scarf. And yeah, this part was hard. This part was like really testing my patients and yeah, I remember just asking Chloe after everyone like, how are we doing? And she was like, one step closer than you were before. Before. And yeah, I remember when she first was like, you can start to see the head. And I was so surprised that there was a baby there.
I was just like, really?
Micah (59m 30s): We got, Chana had brought like a compact mirror and so we used that mirror to show Priscilla the head, which was like a very, I thought encouraging experience for you. Yeah,
Priscilla (59m 41s): Helpful. Yeah. Yeah. And then eventually I had to, I had to pee, but having contractions on the toilet before had been really painful and I was really scared 'cause the pushing was really hurting and, and yeah, Chloe was like, go to the bathroom, it'll be good. And If you have a contraction, just push there. And then once I sat on the toilet I was like, oh, this is where I need to be. It just felt so natural and yeah, obviously it's just you're used to pooping on the toilet.
You're not used to having your legs spread open and pulling a scarf in the bed. Yeah, like almost like Micah and Chana were in the room with me, but like everyone else was on break and, and the baby really came out pretty fast. It was maybe like two or three contractions on the toilet and it was, there wasn't even, I didn't even feel like this is crowning, like this is this, like all this, oh my god. And everyone came rushing in. Yeah. What size bathroom do you have?
Micah (1h 0m 40s): The smallest room in the apartment for sure. And also we had strung the hose, I had taken off the shower head for the birthing pool. I had attached a hose to the shower head and it was like snaking out of the bathroom, like in midair through the apartment into the dining room where the birthing pool was. So it's like the smallest room in the apartment. There's like a, a hose filled with water that's like cutting through the
Priscilla (1h 1m 5s): Whole thing.
Micah (1h 1m 6s): Yeah. Priscilla's on the toilet, Chana’s like crouched in the shower stall. I'm like crouched next to the toilet with Priscilla and then Chloe and the birth assistant Alessandra come rushing in and really catch the baby as he's like coming out like into the toilet bowl.
Priscilla (1h 1m 23s): Yeah. And it was insane. Like as much as you know, that's ostensibly what's gonna happen. It was really quite a shock. Yeah. So it was so joyous and beautiful And he was small and purple and gooey and we all lied on the bed. And I would say it, it was just like, I felt so grateful and just like unbelievably overjoyed with the experience and proud of myself and, and yeah, we were just like blissed out in bed and then, and then Chloe was like, all right, and now you'll feel like some cramping and you'll push out the placenta and it'll be nothing after the birth.
And so it, it just basically did it happen? And about 30 minutes had passed. She was feeling around, she like, doesn't seem ready yet. After an hour she was like, okay, we should get this out. And, and reached in and was like pulling out the placenta and it was really painful. Like that was the worst part of the whole night. And yeah, like the baby was still like on my chest and attached with Yeah. And attached to me and, and yeah, she's, and it just really hurt and she pulled out the placenta but It was like in little chunks and she was just like, I don't think this is the whole thing.
I've never seen a placenta like this before. And then the vibe really changed and she was like, we need to go to the hospital right away. And I think
Lisa (1h 2m 53s): She didn't win advance. Something about your placenta shape. Yes. I think you shared that in your birth class intake.
Priscilla (1h 2m 59s): Yeah. I had a two lobed placenta and I remember also listening to an episode of your podcast where someone had trouble delivering the placenta. And I would say in every one of my meetings with the midwife, this is my anxiety. Like this is like, I have this weird feeling that this gonna happen or just sounded so scary to think that everything was done and then to have this kind of unforeseen problem. But in the moment I definitely would say it was scary, but also I felt so relieved and happy that the baby was born and that I was also super high on hormones and blissed out and calm.
And so I felt really, I was like, the birth is done, whatever happens now, like we can deal with it. But I was so happy to not be going to the hospital with contractions and not be worried about how the baby would be doing. And so as much as I did feel really like I brought it upon myself 'cause I really had this feeling that something like that would happen. But I would say if I had to go to the hospital, I was very grateful that it was after the birth was done. But it was a hilarious, not so hilarious in the moment change of vibe of, yeah. All of a sudden there was an ambulance and EMS people coming in putting me into a wheelchair and there was blood everywhere and yeah, it just definitely was scary.
So we went to the hospital, the kind of like end to the story is that actually my placenta just was very weird shaped, but it was all out. So if part of it was in, there's like a big risk of hemorrhaging and bleeding. So everything felt very an
Lisa (1h 4m 30s): Infection. Yeah.
Priscilla (1h 4m 32s): Yeah. But once we got there, they did an ultrasound and looked around and were like, there's nothing here. So we ended up, it was good that we went and yeah, Chloe was like looking at my placenta being like, I've never seen one like this. Like I went to take you to the hospital again. Like it was definitely the right move. But thankfully, yeah, I didn't have to do surgery. We were home super duper fast. So as far as trips to the hospital go, it was as good as it could have been and just got to get that taste of a hospital experience.
But any
Lisa (1h 5m 5s): Comments on how you were treated? Did I, did I assume they knew that you were a home birth transfer? 'cause people don't always, always get treated very respectfully in those cases.
Priscilla (1h 5m 15s): Yeah, it was actually, I
Lisa (1h 5m 16s): Hope that was not your case, but
Priscilla (1h 5m 18s): It was. So I think when they walked in, yeah, it was just a hilarious bifurcation of these eight women topless doing skin tokin with the baby and then these four buff firefighter dudes coming in and I think they were just looking around, what the hell is going on around here? They were like weird drawings all over the wall. There was blood everywhere. There was the tub. Yeah, I think they were thinking a little bit that we were crazy and we also, we really didn't want to take the baby to the hospital because Chloe was just like, if he gets checked in, you're both gonna be there for a really long time and there's no reason to take a baby to the emergency room at four in the morning when they're like an hour old.
And there was a, thankfully, a group of amazing caretakers able to be with him. And so we were really hoping that I wouldn't be there for that long. And so that was, that was the issue with the fire department. I think they were just like, why is there no baby here? And while, so Micah and me and Chloe went to the hospital, everyone else stayed here with Sandy. And while we were gone, a group of firefighters came over having heard that there was like a newborn baby left alone right after being born and tried to take the baby from the house.
So there was like this showdown kind of between like our sisters and these firefighters who were yeah, just I think had, were not familiar with the home birth environment. Wow. And we're just like, yeah, we've gotta take the baby adv here, wanted to take him to a different hospital. And yeah, our sisters were just like, there's no fucking way and
Lisa (1h 6m 59s): Work for them.
Priscilla (1h 7m 1s): Yeah. I think my sister almost punched a firefighter and yeah, they tell the story in a really hilarious way, but they were like on the phone with their boss just being like, yeah, this is just the way they've been doing things for generations, which is not true. And, and looking at the baby being like, yeah, seems like a normal baby, crying like a normal baby, just really cheating it. Like it was some freaky situation that they had never encountered. So I think they definitely were perplexed by the vibe. But once we got to the hospital, we managed to skip triage and go straight to the natal floor.
And all of the doctors and residents there were amazing and really nice. And yeah, it was funny by the end of the trip like that, at first the EMS dudes were treating Chloe, who are you and you're not a doctor. And by the end they were just like, it's so amazing you've delivered 500 babies. Tell us a story. Like they were worshiping her by the end. So I think that, yeah, it was a range, but I think our families had a pretty hilarious time with the firefighters.
Lisa (1h 8m 1s): Good for them. I'm glad that they stood up for what you all wanted or didn't want. Yeah.
Priscilla (1h 8m 7s): Yeah. And then while we were in the hospital, Chloe expressed like colostrum from me and, and gave, and Micah's sister came and picked it up and brought it back to the baby. So we were, yeah, It was like a wild few, a little bit. Yeah.
Micah (1h 8m 23s): Luckily we live extremely close to Elmhurst Hospital. It's three minutes away and it was four o'clock in the morning, so there's no traffic. So it was very easy and fast to get back and forth and yeah, like my sister came and brought these three syringes of colostrum back to the apartment to feed the baby, which was very cute.
Priscilla (1h 8m 43s): Yeah, yeah. But thankfully I was like pretty just a list out from being given birth the whole time and I felt fine. Like I, I just had, I was just, I feel like if something was horribly wrong, I would feel worse than I do. So we were, yeah, we left at four in the morning. We were home by seven 30 and in bed with the baby and it was, it was amazing.
Micah (1h 9m 5s): Yeah. I would say the experience of the hospital was, and this is great, like for Priscilla was the chillest of everyone. Like I would say for me and for Chloe and for everyone else, It was like, holy shit. Like Priscilla could die. So it was definitely, but you, god bless, were so blissed out and calm and just like happy smiling. I mean, it was so surreal to then roll into the emergency room and it's like just, you know what an emergency room in New York City looks like at four o'clock in the morning, like someone had been stabbed and was like bleeding on the floor.
And I was just like, wow. Like an hour ago we were in our like in bed with a newborn, like surrounded by our families. It just was so crazy. And then until we pretty quickly, once we got to the maternity floor, they were able to do the ultrasound and determine that everything was okay. But until that point it was just, it, it, it really felt like it could, like the range of possibilities was like anything from really bad to like catastrophic. So once they were able to determine that was not the case, then it quickly became fine and then it was like, all right, we're at this really close hospital and we're gonna get outta here really fast.
And even to get out of the hospital in under three hours, it's a miracle. Like a record.
Priscilla (1h 10m 22s): That's what I was thinking. Yeah. They had us, they had me sign an AMA form 'cause they wanted me to stay for blood tests or, 'cause I had lost I think 700 milliliters of blood. But, but yeah. But I felt fine and, and I I think
Micah (1h 10m 36s): And your blood pressure was fine. Yeah. Like all of the measurements looked okay. And basically our midwife was like, I'll just do a blood test for you later this afternoon at home.
Priscilla (1h 10m 43s): Oh good.
Micah (1h 10m 44s): Stay in the hospital. Yeah. But yeah, they were there, so yeah, I would say it was funny like the transfer, I, I, I had remembered hearing about the kind of transfer experience and how that can be weird and yeah, this one was like everyone was very confused about where the baby was for sure. And then also it was a little bit of the kind of, not definitely softer than disdain, but just confusion or like slight condescension of what were you doing, like doing a home birth. But I would say that it was more muted than I expected.
And yeah, Priscilla said the doctor and the residents who examined her ended up giving her stitches at the end too. Were like so sweet and wonderful and yeah, it, It was like the initial kind of ad admitting process was confusing and bizarre and uncomfortable. But then once we were there it was really totally fine and it also helps that our midwife was there with us the whole time.
Lisa (1h 11m 39s): Yeah, I think you, that experience almost undoubtedly would've been so different had you taken the baby with you. So kudos to, I really admire that you and your sisters and your sister fought hard to not let that happen. 'cause y'all would've been there for probably days at least a whole like 24 hours if not more.
Micah (1h 11m 59s): Yeah, It was like, and I remember it was just, I can't overstate, once Chloe felt that not all of the placenta had been delivered, like it just became like a real, not panic, but just, it just became so clear that this was like now an emergency situation. And I guess it, we just made the decision that I can barely remember, but I remember her just basically, I think what she had said is basically, we need to get to the hospital right now. If the baby comes with us, you guys are gonna be there for days. Let's see what happens once we get to the hospital. We can always transport the baby there if we need to.
And if you, if the baby comes now, it's just like gonna set you guys down this path that might not even be necessary. And it turned out she was totally right and it was like Priscilla said so helpful that we had the baby's grandma and three aunts and, and Chana was there. It was like, it was a completely fine environment for the baby to wait while we did the first investigation of what was happening. But yeah, I was grateful for that too 'cause I think I could have imagined it not going that way.
Lisa (1h 12m 58s): Did that feel hard to have the courage to sign an AMA to leave? Or were you just really feeling confident because you had great care outside of the hospital?
Priscilla (1h 13m 7s): I felt really confident. I think, yeah, I, I, yeah, I think by that point I really felt okay and even, 'cause I, I remember hearing that It was like one liter of blood was really the, the midwife's standard of like how much was safe to lose during a birth. And I think in a hospital it's more like 500 milliliters. So I was in the middle of that and so I felt like it wasn't really at the point of an emergency yet. And I felt, and yeah, and I felt like just whatever was happening, Chloe would be the one that I would want to work with me on it more than being in the hospital.
But even they were really treating it like it was a precautionary measure. Like they were just like, we'd love you to stay so we can monitor you for another like 12 hours and, and just keep testing you. But even when she was giving me the speech of this is against medical advice, it felt like she was a little bit saying, I'm sorry I have to do this.
Lisa (1h 14m 3s): Okay. That's different than like, yeah,
Priscilla (1h 14m 6s): I think that was my interview. Yeah,
Micah (1h 14m 7s): No, I, IIII think so too. They really, they were like, we'd like you to stay. We'd like to do another round of blood tests. But they did seem to be, they were not like, you're crazy forgoing or protesting really intensely or being all at that point. It was very much, I, I felt like there was a little bit of an implicit wink of, we do have to say this, but like the formality.
Lisa (1h 14m 26s): Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, okay, good.
Priscilla (1h 14m 29s): Yeah, I think at that point, like the draw to be home with Sandy was so strong. Even if it was Yeah, I was like, get me out of here.
Lisa (1h 14m 38s): Oh, of course. When Yeah. 'cause you, you'd been away from him for several hours.
Priscilla (1h 14m 43s): Yeah, yeah. Like they were sending me pictures from home and it, it's, it just takes so long for your brain to like understand what's happened Anyway, it just felt like such a dream. I was just like, there's really a baby at home.
Lisa (1h 14m 53s): I know. Wonderful. Thank you for sharing all of this. Is there anything else that you didn't get to share yet that you were hoping to share and or are there any final bits of wisdom or themes in this journey that you want to leave listeners with?
Priscilla (1h 15m 12s): I mean I think like the main takeaway, we were rehashing the birth with Chana and I just kept saying how lucky I felt and how grateful I felt for getting this really beautiful birth experience. And she was also saying, give yourselves credit for creating this experience for yourselves and making a lot of decisions along the way. Some of that was scary, some of that required a lot of self-trust and doing things that made your family uncomfortable and all these different things to get here.
And obviously so much is up to chance and out of our control. But yeah, thinking about the way that like my, the birth happened for me and how that would've looked so different in a hospital setting that definitely we would've been induced. I don't know if they would've let me push for four hours. We could just see so many places that intervention would've happened. And to see that everything was so, felt so perfect at home and I didn't feel ever in danger, I think made me proud that we had really treated this with a lot of intention and gone this path and trusted ourselves and trusted our instincts.
And, there was something else I wanted to say but I forgot.
Lisa (1h 16m 30s): While she's thinking Micah, do you have any final reflections or anything else you wanted to share?
Micah (1h 16m 35s): I think the sort of takeaway for me thinking about the experience which had these kind of two, two parts to it. There's the sort of beautiful exactly as we wanted birth, it was actually, it was, there were three parts. It was this beautiful birth experience sandwiched between two really intense parts. The first one being like the gap between the water breaking and labor starting and being like, are we putting Priscilla or the baby in danger with this risk of infection? And then the much scarier thing at the end of the placenta, which was really kind of top scariest moments of my life experience.
But I just totally wouldn't have changed anything about it. Like I would not have sacrificed the birth experience that we had to avoid either of those two more intense kinds of, or not more intense, but like more negative scary on certain experiences at the front end or especially the back end because we were in a hospital. Yeah, the infection thing. Like they would've just done an induction and that would've just gone away immediately as a concern. And then the placenta delivery I still think would've been intense and painful for you, but they would've been able to do the ultrasound much faster.
And I think we wouldn't have had that kind of hour period of oh my God, is everything gonna be okay? And yeah, the kind of beauty of having the birth experience at home with our families so far outweighed in retrospect both of those two parts of it that I just like. Yeah, I wouldn't trade it. Yeah.
Priscilla (1h 18m 3s): Yeah, I definitely agree. And I, in one of the birth books, I think it's maybe birthing from within like she's like, it asks or says at the center of every birth like there's a question. And that was something that I would think about a lot as I was pregnant. And I think for me that question was like, can you trust yourself? And that was really like carrying me through can I trust that I know what's best for myself to make the decision of how I wanna give birth and trust that all of these unknowns will pop up and I will still be okay and can I trust my body and can I trust that my baby knows what to do and all these things.
And I think just feeling like I really focused on that and did trust myself and that it panned out so beautifully. It was such a beautiful way to enter parenthood, which is its own really hard different kind of thing. And so that just gives you such a confidence boost and like a beautiful entryway to this. You get no break and then all of a sudden you're in this other extremely challenging tunnel. So just that I think is, was invaluable. Like I just needed to enter this journey with the confidence that the birth gave me and I could see that being really hard if, if I was coming at it from a less empowered place.
So that was just such a gift to have like birth be something that just really shows you that you can handle whatever is thrown at you 'cause you're about to get a lot of other things thrown at you Right. After I got that right.
Micah (1h 19m 37s): I, I would say just another thought that just occurred to me like final plug for taking a class like yours Lisa, and also perusing the many websites that have all sorts of amazing information and have aggregated studies about the birth process, like evidence-based birth being the best one. There's just so much information out there that you can read and take in before you set yourself down the path of, of the actual birth. And I just found it so helpful.
I, I feel like I just assumed that you just have to give up control and, and knowledge and you check into the hospital and hand yourself over to the medical authorities and, and put your trust in them. And there is an aspect of birth that does involve sacrificing control for sure. But it was just so empowering and encouraging to know, oh you can actually, yeah, there's just, we've studied this stuff not as extensively as we should but there still is a lot of literature out there and you can really like make your own informed decisions like at every step of the process If you give yourself the time to do it.
And yeah, it can be like an experience that like you're in the driver's seat more than like you think you can be.
Lisa (1h 20m 44s): I love that. Yeah. And as you're mentioning resources, Micah, I just want to hold space for the, I don't wanna put a label on it. I might say trauma but I don't know If you would identify it as trauma, just witnessing the scary thing after birth of going to the hospital and everything. But just acknowledging that sometimes witnessing and holding space and supporting your partner through something scary can be really tough and can re require some support group or therapy or something.
And so I will link in the follow-up notes in the show notes to some specifically for partner resources for you or for anyone who just who's on this journey just in case. Just to know that there aren't as many support resources for partners as I feel like I wish there were, but there are some and maybe you've already thought that out. I don't know. You're pretty, you're in the trenches right now. It's really early on. Still processing of course. But just wanted to hold space and mention that.
Priscilla (1h 21m 43s): Thank you.
Micah (1h 21m 44s): Yeah, thanks.
Lisa (1h 21m 46s): Alright, thank you so much. I am just sending you so much love and admiration and I just, this story is beautiful. I just keep envisioning the circle of women, female energy through that time. That just is so cool. That's another thing you wouldn't have been able to have in a hospital birth, right? Yeah. 'cause they limit it usually to two people in the room at a time. So yeah, it's just a beautiful image. I'm gonna just sit with that for a long time. So thank you again for sharing.
I'm so thankful that both of you were able to join. Sandy is sleeping through the whole thing.
Priscilla (1h 22m 24s): Yeah,
Micah (1h 22m 24s): Yeah. Like a baby.
Lisa (1h 22m 26s): I hope to see you all and be able to maybe meet at least in person Sandy at maybe in May at the reunion in Astoria Park. I will be sure to invite you, wishing you a continued healthy journey through these early weeks and months of parenting your baby and continued healing as well.
Priscilla (1h 22m 46s): Thank you so much Lisa. And really thank you for all of your guidance and wisdom and positive energy. They were really helpful in helping us build confidence and feel ready for everything. I can't imagine going through it without your class and your podcasts. Both were really helpful for me.
Lisa (1h 23m 2s): All right, so that's a wrap on Priscilla and Micah's baby's birth story. In case I sounded a bit like a doctor hater in our discussion about interventions often causing more harm than good, I do wanna be sure you know that I have enormous respect for doctors and their expertise. I also wanted to clarify something with regard to monitoring. The most common kind of monitoring in our hospitals is external fetal monitoring. This kind of monitoring is far from accurate so that a lot of c-sections often happen due to a knee jerk reaction about something being wrong with a baby when many times it was just that it wasn't an accurate read.
For this reason, the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists has recommended to try internal monitoring if there's a concern instead of going straight to a C-section in most cases, as this will give a much more accurate read of what's going on with the baby. While this does provide a more accurate read, there's a higher risk of infection anytime we go internal. So that's why it's not generally the default kind of monitoring, particularly as it requires rupturing the membranes to access the baby's head for monitoring.
What were your thoughts about today's story? Do you have questions about home birth? I'd love to hear them. Email us anytime at podcast at Birth Matters nyc.com or you can DM us over on Instagram at Birth Matters nyc. When I asked Priscilla if she had an affirmation that she loved, she said, my mantra was, I trust what my body knows in the mystery and Chana's words, your body and baby know just what to do.
Were super helpful. So I invite you to choose one of those to meditate on this week. I'll read them one more time. I trust what my body knows in the mystery. Your body and baby know just what to do. Okay, here's a sneak peek of what's up next time.
Aatreyi (1h 25m 10s): Five days before my due date I went to the acupuncturist and it was my first acupuncture ever in my life. So I didn't know what I was, what to expect, but the acupuncturist was like, you are carrying really high, you're nowhere clothes. So he did his magic and he's like, you have to come back in three days 'cause you're not going anywhere soon. So I went back in three days and he did his magic and you won't believe it. I think I saw him on Monday morning and midnight Tuesday was my due date. So Tuesday midnight, my water broke.
So I think he was quite effective.
Lisa (1h 25m 44s): Thanks so much for listening to the Birth Matters podcast. We wouldn't be here without you, dear listener. And we are so grateful that you tuned in today. If you haven't subscribed yet, please be sure to do that. And If you can leave a review or a rating wherever you're listening to this, we'd be really grateful for that too. Until next time, be well. And remember you got this.